Two more teams have dropped out with just St Kilda and Geelong left to play off in the Grand Final. Is it good to see the best two teams in the grand final or where the Doggies unlucky not to get there? Let off some steam below if your team was beaten.
Again umpires helped decided a match with a soft free kick to the dive master Riewoldt.
ST Kilda defeated Bulldogs by 7 points
Wow what a game! I do not go for any of these teams but I was on the edge of my seat just waiting for someone to take the game by the scruff of the shirt and win it for their team. Earlier it was Boyd & Lake who kept Riewoldt and Kosi very quite and it was left to MQualter to spark his team with several one percenters which saw two goals including one off his own boot. At the end of the day the difference was Riewoldt who won the game for St Kilda.
Due to the Dogs domination in the first half they where only just two kicks in front and with Riewoldt goaless and sore he took a dive after a soft bump from Lake which saw him kick a goal and from them, it looked like the Saints game.
Most Dogs supporters will look at that decision and say they where robbed but lets look at these stats. The Dogs had 20 odd more contested possessions than the Saints, including more inside 50m and more shots at goals. We could argue about their lack of a key position player but we have already done that (hear and hear). At the end of the day they simply could not take their chances when they where presented to them.
Geelong defeated Collingwood by 73 points
Collingwood where suppose to be better than this and Mike Malthouse suppose to not carry passengers who do not perform in big matches. As looked at by a fellow AFL writer, there are several Collingwood players who simply do not perform in big matches, the names, Leon Davis, Alan Didak, Nick Maxwell and Travis Cloke (I would add Swan to the list).
Collingwood matched Geelong for two lots of 5 minutes, the first and the last 5 minutes of the second quarter but apart from that, Geelong smashed the cold Pies. This was the best team Geelong had fielded probably all year with both Harley, Ottens & S Johnson playing in the same team at the same time for the year.
In the second half Geelong had 21 shots at goals to 4 and with S Johnson getting through a full game along with Chapman kicking 5 and midfielders Gary Ablett (34 possessions), Joel Corey (34), Jimmy Bartel (32) and Ling keeping Swan quite again. Hawkins also showed enough he likes big games and is improving as a KPP forward.
Preliminary Finals Talking Points
Please give us your thoughts in the comments section below or add your own talking points. The questions will be asked in bold and my response will be un-bold under them. Your input and comments help us make Kick2Kick a better website, so please express your opinions.
- Who will win the Brownlow tonight?
- Think everyone’s romantic choice would be Gary Ablett jnr but I think again he will be over looked. If he wins, he will be the first to win missing as many games as has since Libba in the early 90′s.
- Did the Dogs lose the match more than St Kilda won the game?
- Yes
- Did Riewoldt dive for the free kick? Especially with comments from Aker about the Umpires warning.
- Riewoldt’s a great player but he is soft and that was a dive and the AFL should be looking at dives like that. Also if Aker is right that the Umpire warned them that a free kick will be given, that also should be questioned.
- Will the Dogs go for a KPP forward in the trade period?
- I think so and I doubt both Aker, Johnson and Eagleton will be retained, at least Eagleton will be asked to retire and maybe also Aker.
- Is Collingwood full off downhill skiers?
- Yes and Malthouse is not as good as a coach as what everyone thinks. Good reflector but coach? No!
- Should the pressure be on Malthouse instead of Bomber Thompson? (11 years and no premierships)
- Yes see above!
- Will the romantic pick be St Kilda due to their premiership drought?
- Yes it will be, perfect example was when Sydney and Geelong where looking to end their premiership droughts.
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September 21st, 2009 at 10:22 am
1. Dane Swan. I have a nagging thought that the tattoos of Swan and Beams got a lot of footy this year and the umpires won’t forget that after matches when giving votes.
2. Tough one. Maybe the Dogs did lose the game more but the better and more deserving team is in the GF.
3. I don’t think it was a dive. But there was no way in the world was it a free kick. Shocking decision. Momentum shifting too.
4. They will, but that’s easier said than done. Would they take a chance on Barry Hall? He may be the best available but it’s a risk. Not much out there.
5. Absolutely. The Didaks and Davises of this world are outrageously talented but until they put their head over a hard footy Collingwood will be pushing uphill.
6. No way. Malthouse has consistently got an ordinary list to overachieve (does anyone really think they were all that good in 2002 and ’03?), how can that be bad coaching? Besides, the succession plan’s in place so there’s no pressure at all. The Cats have much more at stake this Saturday, it’s not only Bomber who’ll be feeling it on Saturday.
7. Having said that although St. Kilda are the obvious sentimental favourites (and I’d love them to win for long time sufferers like my dad) I cannot see Geelong letting this one go. They know opportunities are running out and don’t want to be remembered as underachievers. Sorry St. Kilda, I think my Hawks ruined everyone’s hopes of a flag by stirring the Cats up in 2008!
September 21st, 2009 at 10:49 am
@Mike – bad goal kicking is bad football…
btw Gia is another who has had a quite finals career, one goal in 5 finals matches.
@White Ox – Thanks for your first comment on hear and I hope we see more.
Yes Malthouse got them to grand finals in 02-03, but who else was there who could challenge Brisbane? Port was almost more shaky than the Colli-woobles. Malthouse has been living on his premierships from WCE almost 20 years ago but the thing is he should have got more out of that side than just 2 premierships and 3 grand finals. That team could have done a Brisbane and played in 4 grand finals.
September 21st, 2009 at 10:30 am
first and foremost we were robbed in the sense that st kilda were given 4 SOFT free kicks which resulted in goals.
Nick Reiwoldt is a BABY and took the biggest DIVE i have ever seen.
however we did shoot ourselves in the foot by AGAIN being inaccurate. the bulldogs have become their own worst enemy of late. since round 10 the bulldogs have had more scoring shots than their opponents in every game except 3. North Melbourne in round 13 Bull 17.6 to North 12.14, round 17 bull 9.7 stk 16.10 and in 2nd qual final Bull 12.10 vs Geel 14.12, yet since round 10 we have lost 5 games. (against COLL, STK, WCE, GEEL, STK)
and in 3 of those games we have lost we have had more scoring shots than our opponents (16.14 vs 17.9 vs COLL)(13.19 vs 16.6 vs WCE)(7.11 vs 9.6 vs STK) and the losing margins were 1 pt vs COLL, 5pts vs WCE and 7pts vs STK. our inaccuracy has killed us especially when it matters most, in the prelim final against STK.
I’m sorry deano but I’m going to have to agree with Jermayn a little bit here. i still believe we can win a premiership without a key forward but i beleive that acquiring one, or someone who can play as a key forward would be the best thing for the team for those parts of the game when we need to bomb it into the forward line when the game is on the line.
however like i said i still do no think it will be the answer to our problems as like i clearly stated above our main problem is our accuracy at goals. so if we can get a player who can make a contest when needed and can kick straight then we might just win a premiership next year. as LONG as we kick straight. lol
.-= Mike´s last blog ..Threadless Tshirt Giveaway at jaypeeonline.net =-.
September 21st, 2009 at 10:46 am
1. i hope Ablett doesnt win, cant pick who will though.
2. we did lost the game more than they won and @White Ox, ST Kilda may have been more deserving throughout the season, but on that one game, the Dogs were alot more deserving and very unlucky to lose.
3. IT WAS A DIVE, AND SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN A FREE KICK. it was obvious who the umpires wanted to win.
4. i wouldnt be suprised if all three played on next year. but i think a KPP would come in handy for next year (please doggies please, put all us fans out of our misery and win a flag!!!)
5. Collingwood are over rated, malthouse is a hinderance and i cant see them winning a flag anytime soon.
6. i think the pressure should be on Malthouse in a big way but he will probably avoid it because Collingwood is famous for making excuses, besides there is already a succession plan in motion.
however the pressure should also be on Thompson because if they fail to win this year i cannot see them making the GF next year and 1 flag from 3 attempts with the team they have is pretty pathetic, in saying that i think they will win this year.
7. St Kilda would be the romantic pick but they are on a slippery slide to failure i beleive. since round 20 they simply have not been that good. loss to essendon and then north in rd 21, very poor against melbourne for 3 quarters, were not that convincing against a mediocre collingwood side and then were lucky to escape with a win against the bulldogs. they are not the team they were and are facing a red hot geelong after they were lucky to beat the dogs (but set up the win earlier in the game, and the dogs were unable to claw their way back) and absolute thrashed collingwood. and they now are pretty much at full strength and will be hard to beat this saturday.
.-= Mike´s last blog ..Threadless Tshirt Giveaway at jaypeeonline.net =-.
September 21st, 2009 at 10:59 am
@ germ
yes it isn’t good football but the upside is the fact that we are getting the oppurtunities which is always a good thing. yeah he has been a bit quiet but is still a very important player,
i think the dogs need to work on goal kicking and their defense in the offseason. and i think time is almost up for tom williams. i reckon if he doesnt come good next year then he won’t be around much longer. also talk of moving Everitt on, maybe can use him to lure a forward to whitten oval
Jermayn who do you think would be the best (available) forward for the dogs
.-= Mike´s last blog ..Threadless Tshirt Giveaway at jaypeeonline.net =-.
September 21st, 2009 at 11:02 am
@Jermayn – If you mark purely on flags sure Malthouse has not delivered. You could also argue he would have a lot of sway in recruting and list management so the big game flops are his fault too. But I still maintain he’s a wonderful coach so we’ll have to agree to disagree.
Also a brag – I did tell you on twitter about 2 months ago Max Hudghton would struggle to get in the 22, I have my sources! (haha) I do feel really sorry for him though, great bloke and courageous footballer.
@Mike – Why the hope Ablett doesn’t win? I really admire the little champ and actually would love it if he won but I think he missed a bit of footy and others will steal votes from him. Look elsewhere for your winner.
September 21st, 2009 at 11:17 am
@Mike – Best option for Doggies forward line? depends if your looking for a quick fix that will last a year or two or a longer term like 4-5 years.
If your looking for a quick fix, you have Robbo and Hall who are over 30 and have max 2 seasons, Hall would be the better pick.
However if your looking for a longer term prospect. Hansen starred in the WAFL finals (avg 4 goals a game), kicked straight and looked hungry. Staker is also a KPP player who can play midfield, back and play deep or as a floating CHF and probably has more variety than Hansen (similar age).
The only other ones I could think off are (warning slim pickings):
- Sananta from Carlton for Everitt (would think its not a good trade though).
- Westhoff from PA could do with a new fresh outlook on life.
- Murphy or Campbell (delisted) from Dockers
- Tim Boyle has retired
- Thorpe (untried and a big risk)
I would suggest Hall as he would be cheaper and would cost you less than Hansen & Staker (next best options). Like maybe a 2nd round and third round for Sydney’s 2nd round pick or 3rd round.
@White Ox – Yes you did predict right about Max, I bow to your source on that but I wont about Malthouse. Quietly some people was glad when Malthouse left the Eagles and I think Eddie will also be when Buckley takes over.
Malthouse has had priority picks, easy fixtures, money and yet still unable to win a premiership.
September 21st, 2009 at 11:21 am
@ white Ox
here are some of the best players in the last 5 years
Ablett, Bartel, Judd, Kerr, Cooney, Goodes, West, Cousins.
(i could go on but these players will make my point)
Bartel, Judd, Cooney, Goodes and Cousins are all brownlow medalists, Ablett, Kerr and West are not.
West was unlucky to not ever win a brownlow, but admittadly never did enough to wow anyone but extremely consistent and successful (won 8 B&F’s)
now from observation, West, Bartel, Judd, Cooney, Cousins and Goodes are different from Kerr & Ablett for one main reason.
Ablett and Kerr are sooks. yes i agree the other 6 have had their moments but Ablett and Kerr are two of the biggest baby’s in the game. Kerr is an amazing star but his career is riddled with off and on field assualts.
Ablett has never done ‘Wrong’ but i cannot get over how many times he plays for the free kick. he is a great player yes but i cannot take him seriously when he almost always looks like he is going to cry after something doesn’t go his way. the simple fact is also that he is not as good as any of the names mentioned above are or were (except West) and i don’t think he deserves a Brownlow at all. And i personally hope he never wins one
.-= Mike´s last blog ..Threadless Tshirt Giveaway at jaypeeonline.net =-.
September 21st, 2009 at 11:25 am
Gary Ablett also gets a lot of his disposals as “handball receives”, where someone like Black (who gets a lot of Brownlow votes) gets the ball himself.
and talking of sooking and sulking, hears a previous post and Kerr & Ablett sulking continuously.
September 21st, 2009 at 11:28 am
if it was my decision i would try and get either staker or hall
staker would be a good longer term option but barry hall would probably be a good quick fix.
hansen is a good player but i always worry about him with his injuries, he has had a few and we need a player who can be there week in week out.
unsure who we would trade to the eagles for either player tho
.-= Mike´s last blog ..Threadless Tshirt Giveaway at jaypeeonline.net =-.
September 21st, 2009 at 11:30 am
Fair enough, another agree to disagree. You are spot on about Kerr however, not that I think he is remotely in the class of the others. He has been found out now he gets the best tag instead of Judd or Cousins.
Enjoy your GF everyone!
September 21st, 2009 at 5:52 pm
congrats to st.k they were the number one team all year and deserved the GF spot, however they were not the best team on Friday night and a mixture of not taking chances, not sticking to the gameplan and umpiring inconsistencies have caused Dogs supporters yet another year of heartache.
Having said that i am so proud of my boys sticking to their guns despite the obvious hurdles that were continually placed in front of them. they have continued to improve and will be mighty hard to beat(KPP or no KPP)next year
@Mike, i have always said that i would love to have someone like nick riewoldt but the reality is that these blokes don’t grow on trees and that the game is changing anyway. once again it was not a lack of a KPP that cost us the game, was anyone thinking we needed one when we were all over them in the first half?? the fact of the matter is that the brilliance that was being displayed in the midfield did not get converted on to the scoreboard. we should have been five goals clear at quarter time but as jerm said bad kicking IS bad football. BTW despite what everyone has said i don’t think Riewoldt had that great a night. he took a lot of marks on the wing in the first half but was comprehensively beaten by Morris every time the ball was in a dangerous spot. He kicked a goal from the WORST decision i have ever seen and another that was clearly touched off the boot. One mark was taken directly after the Aker deliberate decision but the other was all class, i think he had a very, very lucky night opposed to a bloke shorter, lighter and who was on a broken leg. bring on ’10
September 21st, 2009 at 5:59 pm
@Deano – Morris on a broken leg??
Even when you guys were dominating every place except the scoreboard in the first half, you still struggled to find a forward who looked capable of kicking a winning score for you.
Johnson looked lively in the 2nd half but even with Riewoldt beaten for the first half and matched in the second half, he demonstrated the luxury of having someone you can bomb it long too.
Agree that the pickings are slim for KPP forwards (see above comment) and if Grant, Cordy and Roughead can improve maybe you only need a Hall for a year or two…
September 21st, 2009 at 6:00 pm
Brownlow tip? i tipped Swan before the season started and will stick with him, prime midfielder in a top4 team with not many other stars to take votes off him, ala Cooney last year.
Speaking of the ranga watch how hard he will come home, last year he had over 30 touches only 4 times polling big votes in 3 of those games. this year he had 7 games over 30 in the last 12 weeks and dropped below 25 touches only once, could be a smoky for top5.
1.Swan,2.Ablett,3.Goodes
September 21st, 2009 at 6:31 pm
“Even when you guys were dominating every place except the scoreboard in the first half, you still struggled to find a forward who looked capable of kicking a winning score for you.”
Why does one person have to kick a winning score for you? we rely on an even spread of goalkickers and it has worked all year…it would have worked on friday night too had certain players taken their chances
RE: Dale Morris, quotes from Mark Stevens, Herald Sun Writer;
DALE Morris has a broken leg to match his broken heart.Morris suffered the injury about six weeks ago and has not trained fully since.He has managed the pain to play, but has been in preservation mode during the week, affecting his preparation.
Bulldogs coach Rodney Eade yesterday said Morris would need six to eight weeks of total rest to allow the injury to heal.
“We were worried about it . . . if it cracked too far he wouldn’t have been able to run.
“He is so mentally tough. He told us he was right to give us 100 per cent, but he is very sore.”
September 21st, 2009 at 6:47 pm
Wow respect indeed for someone to play through that…
@Deano – yes you do not always only need one person to kick the goals but the point I was trying to make was that none of the forwards looked capable to kick enough (on their own or together) goals for a winning score.
September 21st, 2009 at 6:50 pm
Person who suffer most from this unfortunately will be Riewaldt- every time he gets a free umpires will cop it from the fans. The umps should know better than to shoot off the big mouths to the players- telegraphing their decisions not very smart. Make your decision on what you see.
Its no good getting a new forward unless they can play according to the style of the team. Personally I feel we have plenty of tall talent in the reserves- Skipper, Everitt, Roughead, Grant are all very big and lots of talent. We just need to give them a go.
its interesting who didn’t perform when the pressure was really on Hill, Minson, Gia, Eagleton are all good players- but look at their stats in the five games against Geel and St K this year. Unless we can learn to beat these two teams we can never hope to win a flag. I’d put them in the Farren Ray category- very good players but you can only afford to one or two in your team.
September 21st, 2009 at 6:58 pm
@Bob – Thanks for your comments and I hope you enjoy your stay hear and we hear back from you again.
Skipper has been given enough chance imo, Everitt is too small to be a KPP but Cordy, Roughead and Grant should be given more of a chance especially Grant who next year will have 2 or 3 pre seasons in him.
September 21st, 2009 at 7:06 pm
spot on bob, its guys like Reid, Ward and Picken that will carry this team forward i can excuse gia given he was coming off a knee but the other 3 blokes continue to disappoint.
If we are looking for big blokes who can take a pack grab then we have one sitting at fullback, he was a full forward as a junior and took the second most marks this year and was the only defender in the top 20 for contested marks. perhaps we look at getting a solid defender like Matt Maguire(has a lot to prove) keep Williams and Morris down back and trial Lake up forward for a whole game.
@Bob-there were reasons beyond our control why we lost that game on friday
September 22nd, 2009 at 9:35 am
@Jermayn- I think you are being a bit hard on Skipper- he has played 1 game in the past 2 years, if he asks to be traded i really wouldn’t blame him. He can take a mark and is a good kick- something I believe Minson can’t say.
@Deano- there are lots of reasons why we lost on Friday, some were in our control. The main one was our kicking for goal- for some reason this has been an issue this year, not sure why, lack of confidence maybe?
There will be lots of possible drafts pick ups, I wouldn’t be in too much hurry to recruit ready made players- a lot of them will have injury concerns and I’d prefer to have a downer year and develop some players than try and win a flag followed by 4-5 years at the bottom. Look at Adelaide, WCE and Brisbane- neither did anything special in the draft and have the best young talent going.
September 22nd, 2009 at 10:39 am
@Bob – Am I being too hard on Skipper? I would not think so but each to their own. I doubt he would get picked up by anyone else. Agree he is a better mark than Minson (bad mark) but Minson rucks better.
Also I doubt you would drop off to quick, the guys you mentioned before in Ward, Pickering & Higgins are all under 22 and even players like Griffen & Conney are below 25 and should only improve.
@Deano – Interesting idea to put Lake forward, think their are more promising defenders (ie: Spangher) than KPP forwards.
September 22nd, 2009 at 11:54 am
@jerm you are not being to harsh on skipper, the guy was drafted in 2000!! that’s close to a decade on a senior list and only 45 games to show for it. i can’t believe he has lasted this long.
on a different note is it about time that we made the Umpires more accountable for their performances? Everyone from players to assistant coaches, coaches, presidents even the media themselves are made to be held accountable for almost every decision they make yet you cannot even mention these blokes names in a press conference without ending up lighter in the pocket, i know that gieschen represents the umps and has come out and said the riewoldt dive was a free kick but what about the 10 other howlers that they contributed on friday night. Surely someone has the right to ask why Ryan Hargrave had holding the ball paid against him when he kicked the ball 15 metres up the ground?? these blokes get paid to make big decisions that influence big games of football and more often then not do a great job(jack anthony free) but they are human and do get things wrong i just think its about time that they were made accountable…
@jerm-pickering??do you mean picken lol
September 22nd, 2009 at 11:56 am
I see a rant/ article about Umpires being a protected species coming up
September 22nd, 2009 at 3:59 pm
by you or me???