With KPP forwards we all know they take an extra few years to mature. Some are quicker to develop than others like Buddy and Carey who have dominated at the age of 20 but very rarely does anyone dominate that early. Someone like Josh Kennedy for example has only showed he can hold down a spot at CHF in his 4th season.

for now i give up, jerm you win, just remember that some people regard stubbornness as not such a great characteristic to have…

Like I have said before, if you guys win the granny, I will admit that I was wrong that you can win a premiership without a KPP forward.

even if it not this year a team will win without a kpp sooner or later because there is a massive lack of quality talls coming through. the dogs have drafted 3 top 6 draft picks in the last 6 or 7 years(Walsh, Williams and Grant) and none have shone any promise. guys like gumbleton, mitch thorp, lachie hansen are the same and jack watts looks like being similar. they come in too skinny, get knocked around and lose confidence. that is why smaller guys like Porplyzia, le cras, morton, s.johnson and aker all lead their respective clubs goalkicking, footy has changed.

for now i give up, jerm you win, just remember that some people regard stubborness as not such a great characteristic to have…

We are not just arguing about having a gorilla sit in the goal square (well i’m not), I am arguing that a KPP forward brings flexibility and another option. Robran yes played up the ground as a leading CHF (a lot like Riewoldt used to play) but he also gave Adelaide the option of playing him out of the goal square, which they did at times.

My argument is he brings flexibility which what a KPP forward brings and I think this is what your side the Dogs lack. I only focus on this because from where I sit, its the only lack or weakness I see in the side as its a very good side (as much as that hurts me saying it).

there is the problem with your argument right there, he played ruck and a number of positions. he is not a KPP. so what if he was a target. when the dogs put minson down there he is a target, that does not mean he is a KPP.

and yes you have NEVER said they lost because we had no KPP. but EVERYTIME we do lose you highlight it as our MAIN problem. and therefore you might as well be saying that we lost because we have no KPP.

by the way have you noticed that even teams with KPPs struggle against geelong because of Scarlett, Mackie and Harley?
.-= Mike´s last blog ..Threadless Tshirt Giveaway at jaypeeonline.net =-.

He played nearly 150 games and kicked over 100 goals playing second fiddle to Tony Modra for most of his career while averaging nearly two shots at goals a game including having to play ruck and a number of other positions. He is no Wayne Carey I agree but he was a target and he was selected in their “Team of the Decade”.

Also I have NEVER said you have lost these finals because you had no KPP forward. I have said you would be a better team with one as when your under pressure, they are handy as a backup plan when you cannot pin point passes to your under sized forwards and can only bomb it long.

The 09 Qualifying Final was a perfect example. In the first quarter you where under all sorts of pressure and in the last when Geelong flooded back you bombed it in long numerous times but Geelong managed to hold you guys back because Scartlett, Mackie, Harley etc had the edge in the air.

one other point, he gave the free kick yes, but Anthony still had to convert, true? and the game wasn’t so much won by that kick, it was won because Collingwood played well and Adealaide couldn’t maintain their gameplan and their lead.

in regards the Matthew Robran, he is hardly a CHF. Adelaide did not have a KPP in 97. i’m sorry but that is not an argument you can win.
I have agreed all along that a KPP could be handy for the Bulldogs in the Coming years but i still hold my ground that we can win a GF without a KPP in the forward line.
Preliminary Final 08: should have beaten geelong. after half time we kicked 2.7 to geelongs 4.3, which means we had 2 more scoring shots than they did and with the help of some bad umpiring and bulldogs inaccuracy geelong managed to make the GF.

Qualifying Final 09: again, should have beaten geelong. we were monstered in the first quarter by geelong, but after quarter time, we kicked 10.9 to geelongs 8.7, which means we had 4 more scoring shots after quarter time, we had more of the ball but made more mistakes. we kicked 2 more goals than they did after quarter time, and in the last quarter we kicked 4.6 to 1.3 now if we could have kicked accurately (by changing 3 points to goals-which were very gettable goals i might add) then we would have won by a point. yes we didnt kick straight and we lost, but you cannot say that we lost because of lack of a KPP. i agree that it probably would have helped our cause but it was not the reason we lost.

in saying all that i do still agree we should pursue a KPP for the forward line to strengthen our team. and i might point out that it seems Lloyd is to become available. maybe we should pursue him until one of our younger players can step up.
.-= Mike´s last blog ..Threadless Tshirt Giveaway at jaypeeonline.net =-.

First of all let me comment to Geoff:
Yes the umpire made the right call but I personally hate an umpire decision determining the outcome of the game.

@Deano:

Yet despite the Dogs making the Lions forward line look like a bunch of schoolgraders and exploiting their massive deficiencies not one word was mentioned about the Lions’ problems in the forward half of the ground.All i asked was why???

I commented on the fact that Brisbane may have two A grade midfielders (Rich, Johnstone & Brenean are not there yet) but after Power and Black the quality drops and with Black held quite, the Dogs dominated them in the midfield.

you have also said many times that the Dogs’ gameplan could not handle the pressure of september and that they would fall down when it mattered most.

Lets be realistic, Brisbane are not a real test. A real finals atmosphere finals game would be against St kilda this week and the game before in Geelong, Brisbane where just making up the numbers and lucky to get that far…

Time to change your view son because the above statement is a lie. Darren Jarman was a magnificent footballer but a KPP he was not and neither was, sorry saints supporters, Shane Ellen. Both ripped the heart out of the saints and lead the Crows to their initial Premiership just 12 years ago.

I thought you had me hear mate but in looking at the sides to refresh my memory, what about Mathew Robran at CHF and Pittman and Smart, I will admit Robran did not score goals in both games but from what I remember about him, he was a good contested mark who provided a target for the long kick.

We all agree (I hope) you need an even balanced side with experience and no passengers to even compete for a premiership, right? Bulldogs have a great side and if it was not for Geelongs dominance the last 3 years, they probably would have played off in a GF by now. I am sure we can also agree that every team has a deficiency and in looking at history and the Dogs side I think they would be an even better side with someone who can provide a forward target. This may be Minson who can sit on the goal square and allow Aker, Higgins etc to feed off the contest but so far from what I have seen, he has failed to do this.