People go on about the Ryder’s who provide a better around the ground contest than other ruckmen. However in looking at the 2009 round 14 game stats, yes a ruckmen getting his fair share of the ball is important but he also needs to be able to provide a contest at the ruck contest.
Gardiner was the difference as he competed at the ruck contests & gave St Kilda the ability to win more clearances
Lets look at the Essendon v Collingwood game along with the Melbourne v West Coast, Sydney v North & St Kilda v Geelong games and hopefully it will show the importance of a ruckmen who can provide a contest & get the ball themselves.
Paddy Ryder v Josh Fraser
- Ryder had 15 hit outs to Frasers 35
- Fraser had 7 marks to Ryder’s 3 marks.
- Fraser had 23 possesions to Ryders 10.
- Fraser also had 6 clearances and did 3 one percenters to Ryders 3 clearances and 1 one percenter.
- All this equalled in Collingwood with an extra 10 clearances, 39 to 29.
Mark Jamar v Quinten Lynch
- Jamar had 29 hit outs to Lynch’s 13
- Lynch had more possessions (26 to 10) but only 6 marks while Jamar had 4.
- Lynch had 2 clearances and 1 one percenter while Jamar did not have any.
- Although West Coast had more clearances 34 to 27 it was obvious in watching the game that Melbourne dominated or at least matched the Eagles in the midfield clash which helped them win the game.
Hamish McIntosh v Darren Jolly
- Jolly had 36 hit outs to McIntosh’s 24
- Both had similar amount of marks with Jolly 7 & McIntosh 5.
- With Jolly having 13 possessions to McIntosh’s 11.
- Jolly had 2 clearances and 2 one percenters while McIntosh had similar stats with 2 clearances and 3 one percenters
- Both McIntosh and Jolly are top 5 ruckmen but Jolly slightly had the better of McIntosh on the day which showed by the Swans winning the clearances 42 to Norths 36.
Michael Gardiner v Blake & Mumford
- Blake & Mumford who together had 47 hits outs to Gardiners 20.
- However Gardiner kicked 4 goals along with 7 marks, Mumford & Blake 0 goals & 0 marks.
- Mumfords & Blakes stats equalled 12 to Gardiners 13.
- Together Mumford & Blake had 2 clearances & 3 one percenters while Gardiner had 2 of each.
- St Kilda had more clearances 42 to Geelongs 37.
In looking at the other four games, all the other winners in Bulldogs, Adelaide, Port & Carlton had more clearances than the team they defeated and only Carlton had less hit outs to advantage than Fremantle. This means that every winning team except the Demons won the clearances…
In the 2009 round 14 wrapup I made mention of the difference between Grant Thomas’ 2004 side and this current side was the ruckmen. Grant has made it obvious he does not rate Ruckmen at all. While Ross Lyon has gone out of his way to get descent ruckmen (traded for Steven King & Michael Gardiner) to the club.
What do you think? Are you from the school of thought that ruckmen are just a waste of space or do you think they play an under estimated and important role in any team? And in your team what type of ruckman would you prefer?
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July 10th, 2009 at 9:54 am
Ruckmen are extremely important in today’s game, getting first use of the ball in the centre can often result in quick goals.
just look at the impact gardiner (after a few years of struggling) and king have had on st kilda. its no mistake that they have had a positive impact on the side, because it’s not just about winning ruck contests, its the ability of the ruckmen to get around the ground and gather possesions and kick goals.
its also no coincidence that the bulldogs have started to dominate in the midfield and one of the reason is because of ben hudson’s inclusion into the team two years ago and the improvement of will minson around the ground and in the ruck. An interesting note is that the key to a good ruckmen is the ability to follow up their own ruck contests and to have impact on the game in other areas other than the ruck
however a good ruckman is rendered useless if his teams midfield is average. just look at Aaron Sandilands. arguably one of the better ruckmen in the league and almost always wins the contests but because the dockers’ midfield is garbage and can’t win too many clearances Sandilands dominance is really quite useless because his side is unable to capitalise.
Mike´s last blog ..WS: Trip to FeilongShan
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July 10th, 2009 at 10:06 am
I think Sandilands & Fremantle’s problem is more than just the midfield, Sandilands ruck taps until this year were very one dimensional and was easy for opposition midfielders to rove too.
This year he has learned to mix up his taps (big knocks out of packs, taps to feet etc) & the Freo midfield has won a lot more clearances. Yes Pavlich in the midfield has helped but its a catch 50/50 that Sandilands has improved his ruck skills also.
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July 10th, 2009 at 10:14 am
I think people are a bit unfair on Grant Thomas.
His contention has always been- he doesn’t rate ruckmen who are useless around the ground.
GT fought hard to try and get Cox before 2004 and it was almost a done deal- the ruckmen he doesn’t rate are the Trent Knobles of the world who after the initial contest don’t provide much.
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July 10th, 2009 at 10:31 am
I agree and pointed out the fact that dud ruckmen like Knobles, Blake etc are not worth playing due to their lack of effort around the game etc but you still need a ruckmen who can win the contest and give his midfielders first use of the ball. GT’s ruckmen did not do that…
On Footy Classified, he made a comment about Gardiner that you can still see he does not rate ruckmen at all and not just ones who do not provide a contest around the ground.
btw I forgot about the Cox trade, what he offer for the trade & what stopped it etc??
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July 14th, 2009 at 4:46 pm
Would we even be thinking about this issue had the Bombers not lost Hille two minutes in on Anzac Day or had Gardiner not taken that mark in the final minute or two of the match against the Cats?
Probably not.
A few comments anyway.
Ryder spent almost the entire first half in the forward line, so it’s hardly surprising that Fraser got more hitouts. (But Fraser did towel up part-time ruckman Cale Hooker for about 15 minutes to give the Maggies the decisive advantage)
Is Quinten Lynch a ruckman? Seriously?
Blake and Mumford get double the hitouts, but the Saints win the clearances?
It all seems a bit confused.
IF your ruckmen can contribute around the ground with marks, as link players or laying blocks, that’s all good.
IF your ruckmen get their hands to the ball in ruck contests, it’s even money on the ground who takes it away. If they do nothing else, they’re oxygen thieves.
IF your ruckmen can get the ball to your midfielder, who has blocks layed by other midfielders, you have a distinct advantage. If they do nothing else but this, who cares?
Hitouts to CLEAR advantage, which often rely on ground level blocking, are the ruck stat that really means something and can turn a game.
aussierulesblog´s last blog ..A ‘victim’ of changing expectations?
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July 15th, 2009 at 8:47 am
Thanks for your comment and points..
yes I agree that this counts but I also think other ‘around the ground’ stats do count (disposals, goals, tackles & one percenters).
I guess the point of the article and looking at the stats and players is that Ruckmen are important and if you have descent ruckman it can help around the ground but also in the midfield battle.
In regards to your other comments:
- Lynch was actually a ruckmen in his earlier years and I like him as a backup ruckmen but not as the main.
- “Blake and Mumford get double the hitouts, but the Saints win the clearances?” Guess it depends on the hitouts to clear advantage and like you say the midfield set up.
- It is clear advantage for the midfield if your ruckmen gets first hands to it, does not always mean you win the clearances or games but it can help.
I think your a bit unfair on Gardiner, his year has been very even and as the year goes on and other ruckmen (Cox & Sandilands) get injured or suffer form slumps, Gardiner must be in All Australian contention (along with Jolly).
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July 15th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
“descent” relates to downward motion or ancestry, “decent” equates to reasonable or OK (in the context you are using it).
I wasn’t being anything on Gardiner. His game against the Cats was terrific and I’m glad to see him resurrecting his career. My point was that his mark in the dying seconds elevated ruckmen into general consciousness again, as had Hille’s injury on Anzac Day and Ryder’s subsequent efforts.
I think your overall point is valid, though the stats presented didn’t really emphasise it in my view. Nevertheless, as Sandilands and Freo are currently demonstrating, having a ruckman “get his hands on the ball” more often than not means bugger-all if the surrounding midfield are hopeless.
aussierulesblog´s last blog ..A ‘victim’ of changing expectations?
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July 16th, 2009 at 9:29 am
Yes I agree that Sandilands & Freo are showing that you need more than just a ruckman, look at the second comment at what I said. However until Pavlich was injured, they actually improved in the clearances this year…
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