Comments on: The Importance of Ruckmen in Today’s Game http://www.kick2kick.net/afl/the-importance-of-ruckmen-in-todays-game Expert Weekly AFL Tips, AFL Round wrap ups, Dream Team info & tips on how to play and understand AFL Fri, 21 Oct 2011 08:21:36 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Jermayn http://www.kick2kick.net/afl/the-importance-of-ruckmen-in-todays-game/comment-page-1/#comment-8152 Jermayn Thu, 16 Jul 2009 01:29:49 +0000 http://www.kick2kick.net/afl/?p=1657#comment-8152 Yes I agree that Sandilands & Freo are showing that you need more than just a ruckman, look at the <a href="http://www.kick2kick.net/afl/the-importance-of-ruckmen-in-todays-game#comment-7921">second comment</a> at what I said. However until Pavlich was injured, they actually improved in the clearances this year... Yes I agree that Sandilands & Freo are showing that you need more than just a ruckman, look at the second comment at what I said. However until Pavlich was injured, they actually improved in the clearances this year…

]]> By: aussierulesblog http://www.kick2kick.net/afl/the-importance-of-ruckmen-in-todays-game/comment-page-1/#comment-8116 aussierulesblog Wed, 15 Jul 2009 06:46:21 +0000 http://www.kick2kick.net/afl/?p=1657#comment-8116 "descent" relates to downward motion or ancestry, "decent" equates to reasonable or OK (in the context you are using it). I wasn't being anything on Gardiner. His game against the Cats was terrific and I'm glad to see him resurrecting his career. My point was that his mark in the dying seconds elevated ruckmen into general consciousness again, as had Hille's injury on Anzac Day and Ryder's subsequent efforts. I think your overall point is valid, though the stats presented didn't really emphasise it in my view. Nevertheless, as Sandilands and Freo are currently demonstrating, having a ruckman "get his hands on the ball" more often than not means bugger-all if the surrounding midfield are hopeless. .-= aussierulesblog´s last blog ..<a href="http://aussierulesblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/victim-of-changing-expectations.html">A ‘victim’ of changing expectations?</a> =-. “descent” relates to downward motion or ancestry, “decent” equates to reasonable or OK (in the context you are using it).

I wasn’t being anything on Gardiner. His game against the Cats was terrific and I’m glad to see him resurrecting his career. My point was that his mark in the dying seconds elevated ruckmen into general consciousness again, as had Hille’s injury on Anzac Day and Ryder’s subsequent efforts.

I think your overall point is valid, though the stats presented didn’t really emphasise it in my view. Nevertheless, as Sandilands and Freo are currently demonstrating, having a ruckman “get his hands on the ball” more often than not means bugger-all if the surrounding midfield are hopeless.
.-= aussierulesblog´s last blog ..A ‘victim’ of changing expectations? =-.

]]> By: Gary Ablett & Daniel Kerr stop sulking! | Articles | Kick2Kick.net | Kick2Kick.net http://www.kick2kick.net/afl/the-importance-of-ruckmen-in-todays-game/comment-page-1/#comment-8112 Gary Ablett & Daniel Kerr stop sulking! | Articles | Kick2Kick.net | Kick2Kick.net Wed, 15 Jul 2009 02:23:55 +0000 http://www.kick2kick.net/afl/?p=1657#comment-8112 [...] I am continuously reminded of the last 5 minutes. This is where villains & heroes are made. One Kick2Kick commenter mentioned that we talk about Gardiner because of his last minute mark and that is true also for Gary Ablett [...] [...] I am continuously reminded of the last 5 minutes. This is where villains & heroes are made. One Kick2Kick commenter mentioned that we talk about Gardiner because of his last minute mark and that is true also for Gary Ablett [...]

]]> By: Jermayn http://www.kick2kick.net/afl/the-importance-of-ruckmen-in-todays-game/comment-page-1/#comment-8108 Jermayn Wed, 15 Jul 2009 00:47:51 +0000 http://www.kick2kick.net/afl/?p=1657#comment-8108 Thanks for your comment and points.. <blockquote>Hitouts to CLEAR advantage, which often rely on ground level blocking, are the ruck stat that really means something and can turn a game.</blockquote> yes I agree that this counts but I also think other 'around the ground' stats do count (disposals, goals, tackles & one percenters). I guess the point of the article and looking at the stats and players is that Ruckmen are important and if you have descent ruckman it can help around the ground but also in the midfield battle. In regards to your other comments: - Lynch was actually a ruckmen in his earlier years and I like him as a backup ruckmen but not as the main. - "Blake and Mumford get double the hitouts, but the Saints win the clearances?" Guess it depends on the hitouts to clear advantage and like you say the midfield set up. - It is clear advantage for the midfield if your ruckmen gets first hands to it, does not always mean you win the clearances or games but it can help. I think your a bit unfair on Gardiner, his year has been very even and as the year goes on and other ruckmen (Cox & Sandilands) get injured or suffer form slumps, Gardiner must be in All Australian contention (along with Jolly). Thanks for your comment and points..

Hitouts to CLEAR advantage, which often rely on ground level blocking, are the ruck stat that really means something and can turn a game.

yes I agree that this counts but I also think other ‘around the ground’ stats do count (disposals, goals, tackles & one percenters).

I guess the point of the article and looking at the stats and players is that Ruckmen are important and if you have descent ruckman it can help around the ground but also in the midfield battle.

In regards to your other comments:
- Lynch was actually a ruckmen in his earlier years and I like him as a backup ruckmen but not as the main.
- “Blake and Mumford get double the hitouts, but the Saints win the clearances?” Guess it depends on the hitouts to clear advantage and like you say the midfield set up.
- It is clear advantage for the midfield if your ruckmen gets first hands to it, does not always mean you win the clearances or games but it can help.

I think your a bit unfair on Gardiner, his year has been very even and as the year goes on and other ruckmen (Cox & Sandilands) get injured or suffer form slumps, Gardiner must be in All Australian contention (along with Jolly).

]]> By: aussierulesblog http://www.kick2kick.net/afl/the-importance-of-ruckmen-in-todays-game/comment-page-1/#comment-8081 aussierulesblog Tue, 14 Jul 2009 08:46:11 +0000 http://www.kick2kick.net/afl/?p=1657#comment-8081 Would we even be thinking about this issue had the Bombers not lost Hille two minutes in on Anzac Day or had Gardiner not taken that mark in the final minute or two of the match against the Cats? Probably not. A few comments anyway. Ryder spent almost the entire first half in the forward line, so it's hardly surprising that Fraser got more hitouts. (But Fraser did towel up part-time ruckman Cale Hooker for about 15 minutes to give the Maggies the decisive advantage) Is Quinten Lynch a ruckman? Seriously? Blake and Mumford get double the hitouts, but the Saints win the clearances? It all seems a bit confused. IF your ruckmen can contribute around the ground with marks, as link players or laying blocks, that's all good. IF your ruckmen get their hands to the ball in ruck contests, it's even money on the ground who takes it away. If they do nothing else, they're oxygen thieves. IF your ruckmen can get the ball to your midfielder, who has blocks layed by other midfielders, you have a distinct advantage. If they do nothing else but this, who cares? Hitouts to CLEAR advantage, which often rely on ground level blocking, are the ruck stat that really means something and can turn a game. .-= aussierulesblog´s last blog ..<a href="http://aussierulesblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/victim-of-changing-expectations.html">A ‘victim’ of changing expectations?</a> =-. Would we even be thinking about this issue had the Bombers not lost Hille two minutes in on Anzac Day or had Gardiner not taken that mark in the final minute or two of the match against the Cats?

Probably not.

A few comments anyway.

Ryder spent almost the entire first half in the forward line, so it’s hardly surprising that Fraser got more hitouts. (But Fraser did towel up part-time ruckman Cale Hooker for about 15 minutes to give the Maggies the decisive advantage)

Is Quinten Lynch a ruckman? Seriously?

Blake and Mumford get double the hitouts, but the Saints win the clearances?

It all seems a bit confused.

IF your ruckmen can contribute around the ground with marks, as link players or laying blocks, that’s all good.

IF your ruckmen get their hands to the ball in ruck contests, it’s even money on the ground who takes it away. If they do nothing else, they’re oxygen thieves.

IF your ruckmen can get the ball to your midfielder, who has blocks layed by other midfielders, you have a distinct advantage. If they do nothing else but this, who cares?

Hitouts to CLEAR advantage, which often rely on ground level blocking, are the ruck stat that really means something and can turn a game.
.-= aussierulesblog´s last blog ..A ‘victim’ of changing expectations? =-.

]]> By: Jermayn http://www.kick2kick.net/afl/the-importance-of-ruckmen-in-todays-game/comment-page-1/#comment-7926 Jermayn Fri, 10 Jul 2009 02:31:03 +0000 http://www.kick2kick.net/afl/?p=1657#comment-7926 I agree and pointed out the fact that dud ruckmen like Knobles, Blake etc are not worth playing due to their lack of effort around the game etc but you still need a ruckmen who can win the contest and give his midfielders first use of the ball. GT's ruckmen did not do that... On Footy Classified, he made a comment about Gardiner that you can still see he does not rate ruckmen at all and not just ones who do not provide a contest around the ground. btw I forgot about the Cox trade, what he offer for the trade & what stopped it etc?? I agree and pointed out the fact that dud ruckmen like Knobles, Blake etc are not worth playing due to their lack of effort around the game etc but you still need a ruckmen who can win the contest and give his midfielders first use of the ball. GT’s ruckmen did not do that…

On Footy Classified, he made a comment about Gardiner that you can still see he does not rate ruckmen at all and not just ones who do not provide a contest around the ground.

btw I forgot about the Cox trade, what he offer for the trade & what stopped it etc??

]]> By: James Rose http://www.kick2kick.net/afl/the-importance-of-ruckmen-in-todays-game/comment-page-1/#comment-7923 James Rose Fri, 10 Jul 2009 02:14:30 +0000 http://www.kick2kick.net/afl/?p=1657#comment-7923 I think people are a bit unfair on Grant Thomas. His contention has always been- he doesn't rate ruckmen who are useless around the ground. GT fought hard to try and get Cox before 2004 and it was almost a done deal- the ruckmen he doesn't rate are the Trent Knobles of the world who after the initial contest don't provide much. .-= James Rose´s last blog ..<a href="http://www.contestedfooty.com/2009/07/round-15-previews_10.html">Round 15 previews</a> =-. I think people are a bit unfair on Grant Thomas.

His contention has always been- he doesn’t rate ruckmen who are useless around the ground.

GT fought hard to try and get Cox before 2004 and it was almost a done deal- the ruckmen he doesn’t rate are the Trent Knobles of the world who after the initial contest don’t provide much.
.-= James Rose´s last blog ..Round 15 previews =-.

]]> By: Jermayn http://www.kick2kick.net/afl/the-importance-of-ruckmen-in-todays-game/comment-page-1/#comment-7921 Jermayn Fri, 10 Jul 2009 02:06:01 +0000 http://www.kick2kick.net/afl/?p=1657#comment-7921 I think Sandilands & Fremantle's problem is more than just the midfield, Sandilands ruck taps until this year were very one dimensional and was easy for opposition midfielders to rove too. This year he has learned to mix up his taps (big knocks out of packs, taps to feet etc) & the Freo midfield has won a lot more clearances. Yes Pavlich in the midfield has helped but its a catch 50/50 that Sandilands has improved his ruck skills also. I think Sandilands & Fremantle’s problem is more than just the midfield, Sandilands ruck taps until this year were very one dimensional and was easy for opposition midfielders to rove too.

This year he has learned to mix up his taps (big knocks out of packs, taps to feet etc) & the Freo midfield has won a lot more clearances. Yes Pavlich in the midfield has helped but its a catch 50/50 that Sandilands has improved his ruck skills also.

]]> By: Mike http://www.kick2kick.net/afl/the-importance-of-ruckmen-in-todays-game/comment-page-1/#comment-7919 Mike Fri, 10 Jul 2009 01:54:03 +0000 http://www.kick2kick.net/afl/?p=1657#comment-7919 Ruckmen are extremely important in today's game, getting first use of the ball in the centre can often result in quick goals. just look at the impact gardiner (after a few years of struggling) and king have had on st kilda. its no mistake that they have had a positive impact on the side, because it's not just about winning ruck contests, its the ability of the ruckmen to get around the ground and gather possesions and kick goals. its also no coincidence that the bulldogs have started to dominate in the midfield and one of the reason is because of ben hudson's inclusion into the team two years ago and the improvement of will minson around the ground and in the ruck. An interesting note is that the key to a good ruckmen is the ability to follow up their own ruck contests and to have impact on the game in other areas other than the ruck however a good ruckman is rendered useless if his teams midfield is average. just look at Aaron Sandilands. arguably one of the better ruckmen in the league and almost always wins the contests but because the dockers' midfield is garbage and can't win too many clearances Sandilands dominance is really quite useless because his side is unable to capitalise. .-= Mike´s last blog ..<a href="http://www.jezjo.com/?p=621">WS: Trip to FeilongShan</a> =-. Ruckmen are extremely important in today’s game, getting first use of the ball in the centre can often result in quick goals.
just look at the impact gardiner (after a few years of struggling) and king have had on st kilda. its no mistake that they have had a positive impact on the side, because it’s not just about winning ruck contests, its the ability of the ruckmen to get around the ground and gather possesions and kick goals.
its also no coincidence that the bulldogs have started to dominate in the midfield and one of the reason is because of ben hudson’s inclusion into the team two years ago and the improvement of will minson around the ground and in the ruck. An interesting note is that the key to a good ruckmen is the ability to follow up their own ruck contests and to have impact on the game in other areas other than the ruck

however a good ruckman is rendered useless if his teams midfield is average. just look at Aaron Sandilands. arguably one of the better ruckmen in the league and almost always wins the contests but because the dockers’ midfield is garbage and can’t win too many clearances Sandilands dominance is really quite useless because his side is unable to capitalise.
.-= Mike´s last blog ..WS: Trip to FeilongShan =-.

]]>