We all know the AFL fixtures is uneven and unfair with certain Victorian clubs handed easy fixtures year in and year out. However whats ironic is that they have yet to win a premiership in almost 20 years…
Collingwood again look to get the best deal with this years fixtures but they are not the only club
This year we see a flexible round 22 fixture where the clubs that are not in the run for the finals will ‘most likely’ be played on the Sunday to give the finals bound clubs their needed 7 days break. This happened after Collingwood and the Dogs whinged about their round 22 twilight match in 2009.
We will look at the clubs and see if they have a good run or not, how many of the 2009 finalists the club plays twice and look at their interstate and their blockbuster games.
Adelaide Crows
From reports it looks like the Crows have gotten an early Christmas gift having only to play last years top 8 sides three times (Western Bulldogs, Brisbane Lions and St Kilda) including no trips to Geelong.
They do have to travel interstate 10 times but that’s expected with non-Victorian clubs.
Brisbane Lions
You would be happy if your a Lions supporter (well maybe with the draw and not their new logo).
Have three of the first four matches at home against West Coast, Carlton and the Dogs and will face four fellow finalists from 2009 twice (including Geelong & Carlton).
Of their 11 interstate matches only five are against last years top eight sides.
Carlton Blues
We will see lots of Carlton this year based on their 2009 performance but will they choke with no Fevola to kick their goals?
They like Collingwood got the nice end of the stick with 19 games shown on free to air, the Geelong ANZAC day game and 8 matches in a row in Melbourne.
Collingwood Magpies
Could this be the hardest round of fixtures for Collingwood ever in them having more matches against top-four teams than most of its fellow finalists from this season?
The Pies must play Geelong, St Kilda, the Western Bulldogs, Carlton, Essendon and Hawthorn twice in 2010.
I think not with only four interstate matches all in between round 8 and 15 which gives them plenty of games at the home of football.
Essendon Bombers
Stuff Collingwood’s blockbuster fatigue, what about Essendon? Not only does Essendon meet each of the 2009 top four twice, it must also face arch rivals Carlton, Hawthorn and the West Coast Eagles twice.
However they must be happy about only having 3 interstate trips including one Subiaco game and the last 6 games of the year in Melbourne.
Fremantle Dockers
Fremantle will not be happy about not getting a single MCG game, I understand the lack of interest in their games but surely an away game against Collingwood, Richmond or Essendon should have happened instead of playing at the Dome (for example: round 2 & 15).
In the first 12 rounds they also play Adelaide and St Kilda twice – ouch!
Geelong Cats
The Dogs and St Kilda only face the CAts once, which I really cannot understand, surely we want these top teams to play more in the regular season.
Their real test will be between round 15 to 21 when they face Hawthorn, Adelaide, the Brisbane Lions, Sydney Swans (away), Collingwood and the Bulldogs.
Hawthorn Hawks
Hawthorn could again start the year behind the 8 ball with three of their first four games against Geelong, Bulldogs and Collingwood (the other Melbourne). They have another hard four weeks from round 14 – 18 when they play the Bulldogs, Geelong, Brisbane and St Kilda.
They get four Tasmanian games meaning they only have to travel interstate three times.
Melbourne Demons
Melbourne becomes the Sunday team of the year with half of their games on Sunday, surely that must be the worst time to play.
Melbourne have revisited the idea of selling a home game but Darwin is a better choice than Brisbane and travel another four times (twice in Adelaide and one at Subiaco & Brisbane).
North Melbourne Kangaroos
Scott has received an early gift in his young coaching career in only having to play against two last years top 8 sides twice in the Dogs and St Kilda.
Too right they can make the finals…
Port Adelaide Power
Port is a team that should make the finals based on their potential and the draw along with North only have to play two top 8 teams twice in St Kilda & Adelaide (who they have a good record against).
Richmond Tigers
If they are good enough (I did say IF), it could be a good draw with them only playing St Kilda, Adelaide and Carlton twice.
After their flop of a 2009 season they do not get as many blockbuster home games with only the Thursday night opening game and the first twilight Sunday game in Melbourne in round 2. Normally they get the home game against Essendon (Dreamtime at the G) but not this year and it makes sense.
Surely Geelong are celebrating with only having to play St Kilda and the Dogs once each
St Kilda Siants
I cannot understand why they only get to play Geelong once again and not on the first weekend in a Grand Final reply. I heard its too keep us in anticipation but surely that is rubbish…
Of 2009′s top eight, St Kilda plays only Adelaide, Collingwood and Essendon twice. The other teams they are scheduled to meet on two occasions in 2010 are Port Adelaide, North Melbourne, Fremantle and Richmond.
Sydney Swans
No Friday night games but they get the Saturday afternoon games they wanted plus four of their first six games of the year are in Sydney.
Of the 2009 finalists, they only play Geelong, the Bulldogs and the Lions twice. Sydney should again make the finals based on their draw.
West Coast Eagles
As an Eagles supporter I think they have a good fixture for the year.
The round 22 match against Geelong could see them just miss out on the finals with a loss but only half of their 22 matches are against last years top 8 teams.
The start and end of the season will be hard with a game each in Brisbane and Sydney in the first five rounds and away games in Adelaide and Geelong in the last three rounds.
Western Bulldogs
Only have to play Geelong once and not until round 20, which is amazing as their recent rival have produced some of the best spectacle games. As you can tell this is almost my biggest question mark over the fixtures.
Do have to travel twice to NT and Canberra but the financial reward for that is great. They also get a blockbuster opening game against Collingwood for Brad Johnson’s 350th game.
Concluding thoughts of the 2010 fixtures
No Rival Round? No Grand Final reply on the first Friday night of round 1? Geelong and Carlton pinch the ANZAC day match of Collingwood & Essendon? (edit: I mean with this that the Blues & Geelong get the whole day too themselves)
Every team expect the Swans play a Thursday or Friday match. Interesting as surely they are a better team to watch than a Melbourne, Fremantle or North Melbourne. Maybe its because Rugby has the market for Friday night games in NSW.
So what do you think? Are you happy with your teams fixtures? Tell us who you support and whether your happy or not.
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November 1st, 2009 at 11:06 am
For goodness sake, get a spell checker and grammar checker.
Anzac Day has only been exclusive to Essendon and Collingwood when not on a normal football day (Friday to Sunday), so nothing has been “pinched”.
That’s some crystal ball you’ve got!
aussierulesblog´s last blog ..The modern coach
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November 2nd, 2009 at 1:37 pm
Maybe my comment about the Eagles just missing out on the finals with a loss against Geelong in round 22 is a big crystal ball call BUT they will improve from this year (if everything equals up), guess we will just have to wait and see.
True but 3 matches on the ANZAC day? From what I know (you prob know more and im sure you will correct me if I am wrong) but the most AFL matches ever played on ANZAC day before was 2 as they wanted to showcase this match. With 2 other games (inc Tasmania) on the same day, the importance of the match imo has been lessened and more importance given to the Geelong/ Blues match
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November 2nd, 2009 at 6:23 pm
‘We all know the AFL fixtures is uneven and unfair with certain Victorian clubs handed easy fixtures year in and year out.’
‘They do have to travel interstate 10 times but that’s expected with non-Victorian clubs.’
Am i really supposed to take this seriously. there are times Jerm when you are capable of having a balanced view on things and there are also times when your ignorance is staggering. Do the math, there are 10 teams in Melb and 6 in the rest of the country, what do you expect the afl to do? if victorian teams were made to play interstate 10 times then they would have to double up a few times, would it have been fair if your eagles got to play richmond, north and melbourne twice each at subi this year or perhaps you would have prefered to play Geel, St.K and the Dogs twice??? i think not. Open your eyes Victorian teams playing anymore then 6 or 7 games interstate just does not work. Melbourne is and always will be the capital of the AFL, It has the strongest following, attracts the highest ratings and generates the most revenue. Fair or not i would rather watch Carl v Coll at the ‘G in front of a full house twice then see Port v Rich at moron park in front of no one twice, and this coming from a NSW man!!!
‘The Dogs and St Kilda only face the CAts once, which I really cannot understand, surely we want these top teams to play more in the regular season.’
Of the Dogs 25 games in ’09, six were against the Saints and Cats with two games against other top4 side Collingwood and two games against Bris, throw in 6 interstate trips and i think you can see why the dogs have been spared return matches against the reigning grand finalists this season…
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November 3rd, 2009 at 9:15 am
@Deano, I am not saying the answer is to make Victorian clubs play outside Victoria 10 times but surely you have to agree that the fixtures are unfair for a NATIONAL competition. Remember its not the 1980′s anymore where some clubs have joined the Victorian Football League, it went NATIONAL in 1990…
Surely making every Victorian club play outside Victoria at least 5 times is not that much, yes it may mean that Adelaide, Port, Brisbane, Sydney, Freo and the Eagles could get an extra match at home. I know hat wont happen but allowing them not too travel thousands of kms every second week once or twice would allow them some respite.
A while ago I wrote this article highlighting that playing in Victoria extends your career. Adelaide’s greats of 300+ game players was mentioned but look at these stats that traveling from Adelaide to Melbourne is nothing compared to Perth to Melbourne.
stats source
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November 3rd, 2009 at 11:14 am
If the fixture were that unfair then why have Port, Bris, WCE, Syd and Adelaide won 8 of the last 13 flags? Look at the other side of things, showdowns and derbys are always a 50/50 pick regardless of where teams are on the ladder, this happens on a weekly basis in melbourne.
As it stands a team like the eagles gets 10 games against sides who have had to travel thousands of kilometres, play in weather conditions that they are suited to in a stadium filled with 50,000 of their own supporters and get two 50/50 games as well as travelling ten times(5 or 6 in Melb).
If we take the Dogs for example in ’09, 16 50/50 games in Melb(in a season where 6 of the 8 top teams were from Vic) as well as travelling 6 times. Yet were still able to make top 4. There are no excuses, you are either a good football side who can play well in all conditions and on all grounds or you are not. Those that are not tend to whinge about draw inequities rather then getting their football departments in shape.
Get a grip Jer, your team has won 3 flags in its 22 year existence, surely it is not as hard as you are making it out to be.
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November 3rd, 2009 at 11:30 am
Surely your not serious saying that traveling interstate 10 times a year has no impact on a team….
That would have to be one of the most outrageous comments ever, a few Victorian teams this year in 2009 had a taste of their ‘out of state’ counterparts and what was the result?
- Geelong struggled in the three games against WCE and Freo and the in between game.
- Essendon looking for a finals spot lost both games badly against both WCE and Freo and almost missed out on the finals.
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November 3rd, 2009 at 6:39 pm
Don’t put words in my mouth, I never said that. I am offering the view that I think the AFL gets it right.
Victorian sides make up 62.5% of the league, since 1990 when the game became national there have been 20 GF’s and 40 Grand Finalists. The split of Victorian teams-24 GF’s(60%) to Interstate teams-16 GF’s(40%) reflects that things are about even*(note that first half of 90′s saw a 71%/29% Vic to Non Vic ratio until Fre and PA were introduced.)
What is of interest is that in the last decade the balance has shifted and that the last 20 Grand Finalists have seen 10 Vic sides and 10 Non Vic sides compete for a 50/50 ratio. If we break it down even further, the last 12 Premierships have seen 83% of Interstate teams WIN a Premiership whilst Victorian teams sit at a paltry 40%. Yet we are lead to believe by the likes of people such as you Jerm, that it is so unbelievably hard to win a flag when you have to travel so much. What a crock, the evidence above is undeniable and you have severely underestimated the neutral venue factor. Lets have a look at next years draw and compare your eagles with the Bombers breaking games down into Neutral/Shared home ground(where games are 50/50 at best) Advantaged games(hosting an interstate team at your home venue) and Interstate games.
WCE – 2Neutral, 10Advantaged, 10Interstate
ESS – 15Neutral, 4Advantaged, 3 Interstate
*Ess play 12games against last years top 8(including last 5 rounds of season) and 2games against Haw.
*WCE play 4 of last 6 at Subi and play last years top3 only 4 times(3 at Subi). I know which draw i would rather have.
“- Geelong struggled in the three games against WCE and Freo and the in between game.”
Geelong played WC in Rnd 11, Fre in Rnd 12 and Port in Rnd 13. They won all 3 games by 22,19 and 34 points(after being more then 10 goals in front at 3qtr time) Really, really struggled…
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November 3rd, 2009 at 9:01 pm
@Deano – Interesting way at looking at the fixtures. I find it interesting that you think neutral matches are a disadvantage. Yes they are not as beneficial as a home (advantage) match BUT surely 15 neutral and 4 advantaged matches (tally of 19) is more advantage in the fact that WCE have 7 less games neutral or advantage than Essendon.
Ok maybe not the PA game, but in the WCE game they did struggle and apart from the first 7 minutes (when they kicked 6 goals) they where outscored for the next 3.5 quarters (including a few gift goals).
It was a similar story with the Freo game where apart from a small burst Freo (a bottom two side) matched this years premiership side.
Geelong also made mention that their two trips to Subiaco in three weeks took a heavy toll on them (like Essendon & St Kilda).
Jermayn´s last blog ..The Winners and Losers of the 2010 Fixtures
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November 4th, 2009 at 7:19 am
Perhaps if the Weagles simply relocate to Melbourne, the problems will be solved?
There was inherent “unfairness” for the Weagles — and ALL other non-Victorian clubs — from day one of their AFL existence. So why continue the whinging? Three flags in the face of that inherent unfairness is a pretty damned good result.
But let’s also consider the frequency of travel by looking at an analogy. I enjoy driving and I don’t mind a turn of speed. Put me in Mark Webber’s Red Bull car once a year and it’d turn into a Toorak taxi, but Webber, who drives it every other day, can comfortably do 320kmh and pilot it around very testing circuits with relative ease.
Travelling from Perth every other week could actually be seen as a significant ADVANTAGE over non-Perth teams.
As for “unfairness” in the fixture? News Flash! Sixteen teams into twenty-two weeks doesn’t go and seventeen or eighteen makes it even worse! Of course there are inequities. Short of ditching four teams (currently), there’s no solution. Unless we just have a fifteen week season (or sixteen or seventeen depending on GC17 and West Sydney arriving)? A quick think will reveal there would STILL be inequities.
aussierulesblog´s last blog ..Is it employment or not?
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November 4th, 2009 at 7:32 am
and i find it interesting that you think neutral games are not at times a disadvantage. The Bombers play Geelong, St.Kilda, Bulldogs, Collingwood, Carlton and Hawthorn twice. That is 12 of their 15 neutral games that they will be pushing s*** up hill plus 3 interstate matches.
I like aussie rules’ point on frequent flyers, the dogs have been pretty good travellers in recent years(5 from 6 this year) and this could be due to the fact that we are pretty much guaranteed 6 interstate trips every year. The more times i rode my bike when i was a kid the less i fell off
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November 4th, 2009 at 7:33 am
It’s all pretty simple. Essendon and Collingwood play on Anzac Day. If that’s a normal footy day, other matches are scheduled as they normally would be. If there’s a Monday public holiday in Melbourne, as there is in 2010 in consideration of Anzac Day falling on a Sunday, there’s generaly a single game on that holiday Monday. It works the same for the Queen’s Birthday weekend. The number of games being scheduled for Anzac Day in 2010 has more to do with broadcast schedules than with allocating importance to certain games. If Anzac Day were to fall on a Monday, I imagine the Essendon v Collingwood game would be on its own on the Monday.
aussierulesblog´s last blog ..Is it employment or not?
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November 4th, 2009 at 11:14 am
@ Deano:
When you put it like that, it sounds like we shouldn’t even turn up!!!
On the plus side, the Bombers, at their best, in 2009 were able to at least run those opponents close, if not beat them. I might still rock along to the games.
aussierulesblog´s last blog ..Is it employment or not?
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November 4th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
@aussierules:
Don’t get me wrong mate, your Bombers were a surprise to me last year and they have some exciting kids and play a brave brand of football. they were a pleasure to watch and i hope they make the finals again next year but they have the toughest draw by far. Having said that I love the fact that they have copped it on the chin(unlike other clubs), there are some strong characters leading your footy club and i have no doubt that the upward spiral you guys are on will continue. Keep rocking up mate cos’ you have some exciting times ahead!!
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November 5th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
Missed some of this action (been in a conference for the last two days) but I am beginning to understand where you come from saying that playing a Victorian team at the MCG may not be a huge advantage like WCE playing the Dogs or Essendon at Subiaco.
However in understand your pov better I still believe that playing 19 advantage or neutral games is better and more advantageous than only 12 (like WCE).
BUT surely we agree there is a better way of doing the fixtures than currently…
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November 6th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
… and that better way is?
aussierulesblog´s last blog ..Is it employment or not?
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November 9th, 2009 at 10:06 am
Just some quick suggestions:
- Same amount of ‘non-Victorian’ games for every Victorian clubs.
- Same amount of games against top 8 sides for everyone (even if this means you only get one Collingwood-Carlton type blockbuster game etc).
- Only 10 away games for non-Victorian games.
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November 10th, 2009 at 5:10 am
I wouldn’t look at the absolute numbers of away games but how the travel is distributed over the year. For example, having to travel in Round 22 is a huge disdavantage especially if you get an interstate final the next. Or playing Brisbane one week or Perth two weeks later for eg.
I don’t think going to Adel, Syd or tassie is that bad but the Perth and Brisbane games really seem to be a disdvantage for the following 2-3 weeks (witness Bulldogs losses in Rounds 3, 4 and 5 after 2 trips to WA this year).
I’d like to use the conference system to reduce travel. play your own conference twice and everybody else once (you’d only have 21 rounds too bad Channel 7), then take 4 from each to make finalists- would be much fairer and more exciting
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November 10th, 2009 at 8:15 am
All very nice Jermayn, but first try getting your spreadsheet out, even if only mentally, and figure out the practicality of these suggestions.
Bob’s notion of two conferences etc. is clearly workable on the basic numbers, but then you have to start to consider whether Weagles and Freo would be in the same conference, and therefore play each other twice, or not, and what consequent implications there are in terms of travel for bothe Perth clubs and others travelling to Perth, and likewise for Adelaide, Brisbane (in 2011) and Sydney (in 2012). And that’s only ONE consideration.
There’s an interesting piece in today’s Age Sport section (not online it appears) that bears on this discussion. RMIT Uni Sports Statistics Research Group has done an anlysis of the 2010 fixture looking at things like quality of opponents, who teams play twice, homeground advantage,break between games, etc. (similar in escence to your OP, Jermayn, but based on scientific analysis of data from previous seasons).
The takeout is that Collingwood will start with a stistical four-point deficit every week.
“The impact of the 2010 draw on each team in average points per match.
Port Adelaide +3.26
West Coast +2.46
Sydney +1.8
North Melbourne +0.99
Brisbane +0.45
Hawthorn +0.38
St Kilda +0.26
Adelaide +0.13
Melbourne +0.01
Carlton –0.18
Fremantle –0.25
Richmond –0.55
Geelong –1.25
Western Bulldogs –2.29
Essendon –3.6
Collingwood –4.44″
aussierulesblog´s last blog ..Is it employment or not?
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November 10th, 2009 at 10:33 am
@AussieRules – Thanks for the link and highlighting it to us. I am not maths expert but I find it interesting and a little bewildering that Collingwood gets the toughest draw..
How would we separate the clubs into two conferences, interested in how you would choose who goes where. Would it be based on location or something else like getting the rivals together in the same conference?
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November 10th, 2009 at 8:28 am
The online version of the RMIT thing is here.
aussierulesblog´s last blog ..Is it employment or not?
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November 10th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
Exactly! As I said, it’s an easy solution on basic numbers, but as soon as you begin to think about implementing it becomes (very) complicated.
There’s a reason the 2010 fixture is “unfair” — it’s incredibly complicated to factor in all the AFL’s needs, the broadcasters’ needs, stadium availability and still have it be only marginally “unfair” to some clubs.
aussierulesblog´s last blog ..Is it employment or not?
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November 13th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
How would we separate the clubs into two conferences- simple.
1. 2 SA, 2 WA clubs and 4 Vic clubs excluding Haw and WB who play interstate home games.
2.Lions, Swans and 6 Vic clubs incl WB and Haw.
I know you’re going to bring up the unfairness for the 4 Vic clubs who have to go to perth 2x and Adel 2x, but remember they will get to play less Vic teams in Melbourne so they ahve that added advantage.
Teams in conf 2 only get 1 long trip (Bris) a year plus atrip to Perth every second year.
Teams in conf 1′s main problem are the 2 Perth trips best way is to split them one at start of the year other at the end.
This is a much fairer draw than the current system where Carl, Coll, Ess and Rich get to play who they nominate twice.
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November 16th, 2009 at 9:58 am
I do not think its fair having conference one doing most of the traveling Bob.
We both know this is pie in the sky stuff but I think what will be fairer is having one Perth, Adelaide, QLD and Sydney side in each conference and half the Victorian teams separated as well between the two. When we have the 18 teams we will have two conferences of 9 teams, where they get to play home and away against everyone and then to keep traditional games still alive (Derby’s, Coll v Carlton etc) you get them to play against each other at the start and then the end of the H&A season which can bring it to 20 games and then finals.
The only other way I think that can make it even is to have everyone play each other once and then have the finals..
However I do not see any of our ideas receive much love from the AFL or the fans.
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