So updating the selection for ‘good picks’ again, they first have to be a second round or higher (#20 and above) and then one (or two??) of the following:
- top 5 in their clubs F&B at least twice.
- AA selection.
- Brownlow, Norm or Coleman medalist.
- 4+ seasons with an average of 15 games a season or
- 4+ seasons on the senior list for a rookie selection.

btw I was again away at another conference over the weekend hence why I have only been able to reply now.

On the games criteria, perhaps a number for average games per season — which then removes the need for 150 or 100 games (roughly six and four seasons respectively) to be played. Frankly, if a rookie-listed player is around for four seasons, I reckon he’s better than a ‘good’ pick. Likewise, a draft pick that plays six seasons is an established player. What about avg 15 games per season?

Similarly, for the duds, it’s possible for very good footballers to be injured and forced into retirement from the elite level. What about less than 30 games in their first three seasons?

And none of this, so far, takes into account the difficulty of breaking into the team. Even I could just about break into the Melbourne team, but some pretty handy players have struggled to get a regular spot in good teams. Remember that, in a different era, Gary O’Donnell played 99 reserves games on the way to becoming club captain. That sort of wait for an opportunity is no longer available, so some seriously good players can miss out through no fault of their own.
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So updated selection for ‘good picks’ is first have to be a second round or higher and then one (or two??) of the following:
- top 5 in their clubs F&B at least twice
- AA selection
- Brownlow, Norm or Coleman medallist
- 150+ games for a second + round pick
- 100+ games for a rookie selection

any others for ‘good picks’??

Ok now for the ‘dud picks’:
- first round and less than 80-100 game for their first club

Everyone happy with this now??

So in fine tuning the guideline, we do not include first round picks as ‘good picks’ but do include ‘dud picks’ if they do not make it? and we include All Australian and top 5 in B&F if they are recruited from 16-18 onwards???

Like I have said before, I agree that being premiership player does not make you a star or a good pick up. The WCE players I picked in the original list are just not premiership players, they have other credentials to their name.

Selwood and Rich IMO were both very highly rated and it was other clubs poor judgement rather then Geelongs and Brisbane’s ‘good picking’ In particular Rich, most of us on this site knew that he was going to be something special, Brisbane could not believe their luck that he fell through to number seven.

For me I think some clearer guidelines could be no ‘good picks’ in the first 15-20 of the draft. These blokes are all first rounders and are expected to make it therefore guys that don’t make it from the first round are clearly ‘dud picks’.

I like your All Australian and Top5 in B&F but Premiership player and finals performance doesn’t sit right with me. Farren Ray is a prime example, he is in your dud list but was without question our best player in the 2006 finals series and was a couple of kicks away from being a premiership player this year, blokes can be good finals performers and premiership players and not be consistent AFL players and likewise a guy can have a solid 200 game career without starring in finals or winning a flag.

Personally I would disregard most forms of drafting pre 1997, rorting salary caps and teams playing outside of the rules was rife until the late 90′s and early 00′s. It took more cunning then skill back then.

I think you are slightly over rating Hahn and Gia Deano…

In regards to your question about being a premiership player making you a better player than someone who has not. You are right it does not (and I have made this point before) but players do get judged on their final appearances.

For example Riewoldt will be remembered for his ‘acting’ and poor 2009 Grand Final, like Hahn and Gia (limited goals in finals) and Barry Hall in the 2006 Grand Final.

Deano and others, please give us some clearer guidelines and then we can re visit which club is better at recruiting and picking up gems in the draft.

Secondly if guys like Campbell Brown, Drew Petrie and Kurt Tippet are on this list as being good picks then Hahn, Gia and Shaggy are walk up starters.

Thirdly does winning a premiership make you a good player? If the Dogs win the flag next year does that mean that those three blokes go on to your list simply because they have won a premiership? I just think you need clearer guidelines.

In regards to your other question, Bartel was always highly fancied but Selwood was a risk (dodgy knee) at pick seven which turned out to be a risk worth paying off. And did Bartel make an impression like he did in his first 3 years like Selwood has?

The West Coast players I choose are all premiership players and apart from Darren Glass where picked from the second round or later and have won AA, played over 150 games, Norm Smiths and have been in the top 5 of their clubs F&B at times.
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